This is insane : an exchange

What follows below is a post I made in the Excite Boards regarding a recent set of news articles concerning Mexicos AGs comments and the Mexican Governments treatment of it's own national as a reason they are leaving their country and coming to America.
The reason I have placed this here is the responses I recieved.
Amazingly enough,,or perhaps not so much,,considering at least one of the responders,,the responses allmost seem MORE worthy of the title of my post.



I just can't believe this.

Below are two different news pieces regarding Mexican laws and how the Mexican AG thinks the US laws are somehow lacking in compassion by declaring them 'cynical'.
The second article could easily explain why there are so many Mexican nationals (12 mill) have evacuated Mexico.

One says that the Mexican AG claims our laws regarding guns and drugs are causing Mexico problems.
The other illustrates how they treat their own nationals IN their own country.

How can even the most liberal American that wants America to stay America NOT see something inherently illogical in this ?

How come no one is holding Mexico responsible for driving it's national citizens out of their own country and acting like the US has some responsibilty to take care of their nationals?

This is truly insane anymore.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070614/D8POT7I01.html
Mexico AG Calls U.S. Policy 'Cynical'
Jun 14, 7:47 PM (ET)
MEXICO CITY (AP) - Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina called U.S. policies on drugs and firearms "cynical" and "absurd," some of the toughest language used by Mexican officials prodding Washington to cut U.S. drug demand and stem the flow of guns they say fuel violence here.
"American law to me is absurd because people can easily acquire firearms," the newspaper El Universal newspaper quoted Medina as saying at a conference on Wednesday. Medina's office on Thursday confirmed he had made the statements.
Mexican officials have repeatedly complained that the U.S. must do more to stop the flow of potent weapons - including assault rifles and even .50-caliber machine guns - that drug gangs often purchase in the United States.
Last week Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Washington is taking steps to address Mexican concerns about the arms flow. He made the comments at a regional meeting in Mexico also attended by Medina.
In his speech Wednesday, Medina said U.S. domestic drug consumption has fueled trafficking and drug gang shootouts here.

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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070617/D8PQNPBG0.html
Latin American Prisons Are Overflowing

Jun 17, 2:24 PM (ET)
By JONATHAN M. KATZ
(AP) Three unidentified inmates exercise at the Najayo jail's gymnasium in San Cristobal, west of Santo...
Full Image

NAJAYO, Dominican Republic (AP) - Nobody ever proved Santos Gusman Batista stole the missing DVDs. He was just thrown into prison and told to wait 10 days to learn the charges against him.
Seven months later, he is still waiting.
Latin America's prisons are overflowing with men, women and children who have not been put on trial, much less convicted. Some serve months or years in dangerous maximum security facilities for crimes they did not commit.
The justice systems differ greatly from that of the United States, where defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty and many cases go before juries. In Latin America, Napoleonic Code-based systems require defendants to prove they are not guilty if an investigation results in their arrest.

Wondering where the sanity has gone,

The DANG - DInGIE American
aka,, The Evil White Man

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THESE ARE THE WHOLE ARTICLES:

Click this for the responses from some folks in the Excite Message Boards Politics Forum:
This is insane:An exchange
http://royharbin.tripod.com/blog/staks/excite/this_is_insane_02.htm

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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070614/D8POT7I01.html
Mexico AG Calls U.S. Policy 'Cynical'
Email this Story
Jun 14, 7:47 PM (ET)
MEXICO CITY (AP) - Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina called U.S. policies on drugs and firearms "cynical" and "absurd," some of the toughest language used by Mexican officials prodding Washington to cut U.S. drug demand and stem the flow of guns they say fuel violence here.
"American law to me is absurd because people can easily acquire firearms," the newspaper El Universal newspaper quoted Medina as saying at a conference on Wednesday. Medina's office on Thursday confirmed he had made the statements.
Mexican officials have repeatedly complained that the U.S. must do more to stop the flow of potent weapons - including assault rifles and even .50-caliber machine guns - that drug gangs often purchase in the United States.
Last week Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Washington is taking steps to address Mexican concerns about the arms flow. He made the comments at a regional meeting in Mexico also attended by Medina.
In his speech Wednesday, Medina said U.S. domestic drug consumption has fueled trafficking and drug gang shootouts here.
"They are cynical regarding this (consumption) issue," Medina was quoted as saying in Reforma newspaper.
President Felipe Calderon's administration has repeatedly complained that Washington needs to do more to fight drug consumption and aid Mexico in its battle against cartels. Since taking office in December, Calderon has sent more than 24,000 troops to areas plagued by drug violence.

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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070617/D8PQNPBG0.html
Latin American Prisons Are Overflowing
Email this Story
Jun 17, 2:24 PM (ET)
By JONATHAN M. KATZ

(AP) Three unidentified inmates exercise at the Najayo jail's gymnasium in San Cristobal, west of Santo...
Full Image

NAJAYO, Dominican Republic (AP) - Nobody ever proved Santos Gusman Batista stole the missing DVDs. He was just thrown into prison and told to wait 10 days to learn the charges against him.
Seven months later, he is still waiting.
Latin America's prisons are overflowing with men, women and children who have not been put on trial, much less convicted. Some serve months or years in dangerous maximum security facilities for crimes they did not commit.
The justice systems differ greatly from that of the United States, where defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty and many cases go before juries. In Latin America, Napoleonic Code-based systems require defendants to prove they are not guilty if an investigation results in their arrest.
Judges usually decide whether to imprison a person based on vague, preliminary accusations filed by police, with formal charges often not entered until trial begins, said Elias Carranza, director of the U.N. Latin American Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders.
Statutes and pressure to cut down on crime prevent judges from checking police practices honed under dictatorships and colonial rule, said Mark Ungar, a City University of New York professor who has visited penitentiaries in Argentina, Venezuela and Honduras.
"Everyone needs to show they're tough on crime by sending people to prison, so they keep stuffing people in," Ungar said.
Thousands of people like Gusman are in prisons, trapped in the long period between arrest and trial.
There are 172,000 prisoners awaiting trial in Brazil alone, its government said.
(AP) inmates are seen in a corridor inside Najayo's jail in San Cristobal, west of Santo Domingo,...
Full Image

Four in five Haitian prisoners and three-quarters of prisoners in Bolivia and Paraguay have not been convicted, according to the London-based International Center for Prison Studies.
Of almost 15,000 inmates in the Dominican Republic, roughly two-thirds have not been convicted, according to the Dominican government.
Last year in Venezuela, 59 out of every 100 prisoners were awaiting trial. Two out of every 100 ended up dead, killed in jailhouse attacks or riots.
By contrast, the United States has a prison population of 2.19 million, but only 21 percent were awaiting trial in 2005 - almost all having been formally charged and housed in local jails away from hardcore convicts, the ICPS said.
Gusman, a 31-year-old motorcycle mechanic, has not seen his two daughters since entering Najayo. Of the 1,400 men there, 800 await trial - almost the exact number guards estimate the prison is over capacity.
"I don't know when I'm going to see a judge. I talked to a lawyer but he didn't know what to do," Gusman said, waiting for a doctor to examine his spasmodic left hand. Meanwhile, he remains in the overcrowded pen on a dusty hill outside Santo Domingo.
Throughout prisons in Latin America, overcrowding often overwhelms guards and leaves gangs to run life on the inside. In Brazil, newcomers sleep with the rats on bathroom floors and riots lead to massacres. An Amnesty International investigator said Minas Gerais state police stuff 15 inmates into roofless cages to be drenched by the rain. A jail there built for 16 people was found to be holding 160.
Two years ago in the Dominican Republic, 136 prisoners were incinerated when inmates set a fire in a cell block built to hold 25.
At Najayo, men roam in polo shirts, shorts and flip-flops, pushing their way through rusted metal doors in the tropical heat. Guards in fatigues and designer sunglasses shove their way through the crowd with inch-thick wooden sticks.
An inmate approaches one with a wad of Dominican bills, then saunters off. "You still owe me 50," the guard barks back.
Other prisoners, speaking on condition of anonymity to avoid retribution, say guards charge inmates in exchange for better bunks, free time or goods from home. Tensions sometimes erupt in violence - a brawl here in April injured two dozen people.
It is the poor who usually get swept into jail, while celebrities and rich defendants go free. Chicago White Sox shortstop Juan Uribe attended spring training in Arizona while Dominican prosecutors investigated his role in an October shooting. He later settled the case with an out-of-court payment.
Dominican prosecutors defend preventive lockups.
"In this country, a lot of people live without documentation or don't have an address where they can be found," District Attorney Perfecto Acosta told The Associated Press. "There is almost always a danger of flight."
A recent Amnesty International report accused the Mexican government of using preventive lockups to punish activists. Bolivia imprisoned Marcela Nogales, the general manager of the old regime's central bank, during an investigation some called a political vendetta.
There have been attempts at reform.
Chile re-instituted its penal system in 2002 with new judges and sentencing restrictions. Mexico's president has proposed oral trials and a uniform nationwide criminal code to reduce a 43 percent pretrial imprisonment rate.
Dominican legislators are also considering measures to end long pretrial imprisonment. But those locked up expect they'll always get the short end of the stick.
"If I had more money, they wouldn't have sent me here," Gusman said.
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AP writers Peter Muello in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Stan Lehman in Sao Paulo, Brazil; Eduardo Gallardo in Santiago, Chile; and Ian James in Caracas, Venezuela, contributed to this story.


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Created on ... June 19, 2007

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roy harbin is roy l.harbin aka,,the dang-dingie american aka,,the evil white man

2007