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SlawDawg,,Alienating the 'Inalienable'.

Like all folks who insist there is NO God,,slawdawg apparently misses how an acceptance of the 'belief' in one is more beneficial for America than a disbelief in one is.

The sad and truly terrible thing is how the ideology that is so often advanced by professional educators and degreed authoritative professionals is one which wil ldestroy any resonable expectation of 'inalienable rights' actually being inalienable to Americans.

IOW,,NO Creator,,means,,no 'inalienable rights'.

And,,we are all only 'highly evolved apelike creatures'.

And,,it's okay to model our acceptable behaviour on the behaviourial traits found in 'less evolved ape like creatures'.

And that,,officially accepted by the STATE,,science,,professors,,educational intitutions,,their policies,ideologies and dogmatic rhetoric is the final arbiter of truth and definer of reality' since there is no authority other than THAT one that the STATE considers worthy of deciding the truth of that which folks believe.

Unless you count the Declaration of Independence and the National Documents which flowed from it,,which CLEARLY grants The Creator validity as an authority higher than

So,,here's the set up for the below,,

After I posted a set of 'face its' to him here:

http://boards.excite.com/jsp/topicview.jsp?tid=527336&tm=3

,,he posted his response there and then went and 'called me out',,so to speak by also 'top posting' ,,making a thread titled Mr.Harbin.

That can be accessed here:

http://boards.excite.com/jsp/topicview.jsp?tid=527376&va=1






~First of all my feelings on religion are the feelings I developed on my own.~



First off,,who is talking about feelings?

I'm talking about the intellectual matter of accepting the concept of a Creator which is said by our Nations ROOT document,,The Declaration of Independence,,to have endowed us all with 'inalienable' rights as a fine and good thing that,,even if you do not agree with,,you should NOT atempt to remove since YOUR and EVERYONE elses 'rights' are predicated on it.

Here,,go re-read what I said that set you off enuff to 'call me out',,again:

http://boards.excite.com/jsp/topicview.jsp?tid=527336&fi=4268839



Now,,

NO,,you did not develope your feelings on your own,,acording to 'science',,you have NO control over your emotions,,nor how they develope.

Your feelings are a product of chemical substances produced without any direct control from your mind.

Feelings are simply responses to chemical interactions,,according to science.

~I went to church as a youth.~



Well,,,,so someone did have an influence on your 'feelings' concerning religion then.

You were influenced by a 'religious institution' and a 'religious authority figure' when you attended just as surely as you were influenced by an 'educational institution' and the 'authority figures' that run it.

Isn't school where you were influenced by the concept presented by 'science' that says there is no reason to believe in a god had an effect on your 'feelings',,right?



~It has only been recently that I have become convinced that there can be no supreme being, and if he was a "supreme' being well then he's doing a "lousy" job for being such a supreme being.~



Oh?

Why?

Did you run into trouble?

Have the trials you fell into pissed you off so you're angry that you don't get whatever you want exactly when and how you want it so now that your 'feelings' are hurt,,you are throwing a 'hissy' and telling your 'daddy' that you 'don't love him no more'?

When a 'child' reacts in such an emotional way,,does 'daddy' cease to exist?Or does 'baby' simply try to 'ignore' daddy and 'pretend' daddy doesn't exist?

Dude,,even science doesn't promise a rose garden,,does it?

~It matters not what I believe in as far as religion, I know you think it does, because obviously you believe in it strongly.~



Yeah I do,,I even believe in an 'intellectual fashion' which developed through a 'process' of attempting to 'reconcile' my 'feeling of faith that He exists' with the facts as I observed them.

Like a 'human being' was designed to do.

And that's called the 'empirical process' when 'scientists' use it to investigate matters.



~I would venture that most of the people on this board are around the same age as you and I are, and are not attending any classes that are being taught by liberal professors.~



Yet,,we all have at one time,,haven't we?

And we were taught the same things pretty much in the same way.

We may NOT have watched the same things on TV,,heard the same stuff on the radio,,attended the same church as children,,or lived in the same communities,,,BUT,,and YET,,we all were subjected to State Educational policies and curriculuum administrated by 'duly authorized' professional educators that were deemed 'suitable' to 'educate' us.

IOW,,schools influence MORE people in the same ways,,than TV does.

Ergo,,any wide spread existance of some 'acquired' midset or set of beliefs is 'logically' MORE likely to be MORE attributable to the thing that MORE people have MORE in common.



That's what I was pointing out in the original 'thread' that 'triggered' your defensive response to my words that you took as an attack on what YOU hold most High,,schools and professional educators.

http://boards.excite.com/jsp/topicview.jsp?tid=527336&tm=3

~Face it,,folks believe their teachers more than their TV.

Face it,,more people have 'what's taught to them' in common than 'what they watch' in common.~



And look,,you reacted just like some would do IF they thought you were attacking their church or religion.And THAT kind of response provides evidence that you react to such a percieved attack on that 'industry' exactly,,,,as if it were YOUR religion.





~See thats whats wrong with you on the right, you do not believe in original thought, you believe that everything in everyone's head was put there by a teacher in a school.~



I'm on the 'right'?

Should I use your phrase and say,,'see,,that's what's wrong,,with YOU' and be specific rather than 'general' so that I don't react in the 'bigoted,prejudicial narrow minded way' that you just did?

Naw,,I'll just say,,dude,,I am not on the right nor left,,I am neither conservative nor liberal.I am only and simply a human being trying to use logic and sound reasoning to address the issues of life.

What are YOU doing,dawg?

Playing 'label games'?

Or just following your indoctrination instilled imperatives?

~A teacher can be many things, it can come in many forms....it doesn't always have to be the "traditional teacher in the Traditional setting" that teaches our children.~



Okay,,that would be correct if you would pick up on the concept contained in this,,'all scriptures are suitable for instruction' and say it simply,,'a human being can learn from anything' and NOT limit the 'concept' to 'the teacher' being so vital.

IE;,,what human NEEDS a teacher to learn?

Yet,,animals need trainers to act outside of instinctual motives,,don't they?

Do humans?

What were YOU taught about that?

And what have you learned about what you were taught about that subject?

BTW,,do you have any comprehension of the vast differences between,,'learning through observations of environmental elements',,and,,'being taught by a teaching authority',,and how each actually produces extremely different results in a 'young mind/psyche'?

I personally believe you most likely do,,yet your 'highly evolved apelike critter mindset' refuses to be ethical and would rather push it's own beliefs and agendas as reasonable by 'pretending' to be unaware of the facts of the matter.

A common ploy among the 'critters' I have seen in both high and low society,,and the ones in between and out of line ones too.



~In fact I would venture to say, and studies p[rove me right that children learn more from spending more time in front of T.V. and computers these days than they do from school.~



Sure they learn stuff from those sources,,I even pointed out an aspect of that in the post that set you off:

~NOT TV,,since they get to see all kinds of blatant lying,cheating and stealing on TV,,it is MORE assumable TV would help them learn to spot a deceptive set of ideas.~



And pointed out how that affected your presented theory:

~On the other hand,,Everything they hear and that is presented in schools as reliable,truthful and factual is offered up on a shiny platter from a professional 'authority figure'.~



So,,are they taught the stuff on TV and the web,,or videos and movies,,from a person with 'a position of educational authority' that presents what is taught as 'absolute truth' since it is 'official STATE SPONSORED material and STATE APPROVED conclusions'?

(Uh,,except for the eductational programs and what Goracle and His Acolytes produce,now.SEE IT?)

~It must be true, cause everyday my girls comes home from school I ask them what did they learn and their answer is always pretty much the same....."nothing".~



Well,,there ya go,,a child said it,,so it must be true,right?

Did they teach you that in school,,or did you learn that from TV,dawg?

I bet there is more of that kind of thinking on TV,,than it is taught in school,,right?

So,,are you simply trying to 'cry out to us' that YOU have been messed up by too much Boob Tube watching?

After all,,I do readily admit that some folks can be sucked into it if they aren't taught that they are simply watching entertainment and let it become too real in their minds at too young of an age.

And of course,,there are the 'damaged' ones who are simply less capable of 'seperating' that from reality.

Yet,,YOU are,,were,,talking in generalities,,not specifics.

Which makes me ask you,,should we consider/treat the 'exceptions' as the 'rule'?

(that kind of thinking is also a big part of what has messed stuff up)

~As far as any of this affecting my political career, I know there will be some turned off, and thats fine......I will simply tell them I do not deny them the opportunity to practice their faith, and they shouldn't allow me to practice mine. ~



And that is exactly what I was referring to with this:

~Seriously,,all your 'political logic' falls flat IF you do NOT believe in the root source of the RIGHTS the Citizens of our nation are supposed to NOT be able to be 'alienated' from.

To whit:

A Creator that endowed us all with 'inalienable rights'

Face it,dawg.~





~The Constitution talks about separation of church and state, and I would be a candidate who would be more and likely to honor that over a religious zealot who thinks the Bible should be the constitution.~



Tell me where it says something other than the State will not form a State Church and it will not interfere in the practice of religions.

Tell me where it says A Creator has nothing to do with our 'inalienable rights' or just state flat out that you disagree with The Declaration of Independence and stay on topic instead of hopping around intellectually.

And tell me,,IF you disbelieve in a Creator,,and State dissallows That Concept,,how can you ethically expect State to allow those 'inalienable rights' to remain inviolate?Or just say you don't believe in the concept of 'inalienable rights' because they are said to be 'endowed' by a fictional character.

IOW,,if there is NO Creator,,there is no ground for 'inalienable rights'.And if you disbelieve in a Creator,,you can NOT lay claim to the 'inalienable rights' IT 'endowed' on all.

And someone who thinks like THAT has NO right to be an elected official let alone POTUS since they can NOT be expected to hold those 'rights' as high as our National Documents do and defend the 'people' like the job calls for based on the ideology presented in the national DOCUMENTS.

Which plainly says,,there is a 'higher authority' than STATE by stating the 'rights' are 'inalienable'.

Face it.





~Much Like the Taliban believed.~



NO,,dawg,,they do NOT base their ideology on the Bible.

They base it on a TEACHERS words.

Mohammed and his cronies.

A single group of men all together during a certain period of time.

The OFFICIAL final word on all things.

Like any OFFICIALLY ACCEPTED AUTHORITY established by state.

Our state documents and THE KJV says,,there is a 'higher authority' than any MAN on Earth who trumps any MAN on Earth or any system MAn may build.

And it says it even tho it was written by different men at different times spread out over a great period of time.



~This is why I view organized religion as being dangerous, that and many other events which have convinced me that organized religion is not a good thing. That's not to say ALL organized religion is bad, cause I have seen some good things done by churches, but when it becomes a perverse way of thinking, is when I think it becomes dangerous.~

And that same LOGIC is not applicable for ORGANIZED EDUCATION?

This is where you display a lack of logical parity and ethical integrity.

Maybe you would see how the two are no different if you understood Yeshuas constant warnings regarding,,the 'leavening of the Pharisees'.

~Now I see once again you just can't refrain from calling me your family names and attacking me.~

Excuse me?

What have I called you besides,,your nic minus the k,,dawg,,dog,,and highly evolved apelike critter'?

And what is wrong with any of them?

They are all YOU,,or what you use to ID yourself,,or what science says YOU are,,aren't they?



~...I do not know what your "fascination" is with me, obviously I have struck a nerve somewhere,~

Fascination?

I am simply doing on this board what I was doing before your nic showed up,dawg.

Opposing moonfruit.

You are simply a different strain from those I HAVE focused on previously.

(Ya really should go surf around my site,, http://royharbin.tripod.com ,,check the Staks)

Any one with the intelligence to see through the haze and a true desire and to keep the crap from getting any deeper would also since you apparently have an insufficient understanding of the involved elements to do anything but make things worse if you are allowed any position of actual power/cntrol/influence over any one but yourself.



~and thats fine.....I tend to do that, the truth tends to do that~

A bunch of messed up hooey tends to get the same reaction from a different faction than your favored ones.



~...because people have been lied to so long by their politicians and their PASTORS, they do not like to hear the truth because well, sometimes it's not all that pleasant, and it takes away from them being able to believe in all that fairy tale crap, about religion, and mom and dad and apple pie.~



Just like that.Messed Up Hooey.

First,,ya ignore the professional educators,,ya know,,professors who are the 'authoritative official arbiters of truth and definers of reality'.

There is where the 'attitude' becomes ingrained as part of the 'process' that leads to 'acceptable success' in the environment controlled by the ideas politicians hold inviolate.

And yes,,unfortunatly,,seminaries provide a 'reflection' of the same 'set up'.



~The truth is we are in trouble folks,~

Yeah,,we are,,and your kind of thinking ain'y a gonna help it get any better.



~and God isn't going to come down and pull us out of the mess were in, he didn't put us in it...~

See,,now,,here is where you err with your conclusion.

Whether he will or will NOT do that,,makes NO different how we should behave.

Just like,,whether He is real or NOT,,OUR Government says our 'inalienable rights' flow from A Creator.

That means,,if you remove the creator,,you have no right to expect any rights to be 'inalienable',,which does not bode well for US if you become a 'politician',,folks who YOU admit lie to everyone.

So,,as much as you think you are 'smarter' and better educated than those who believe in A Creator are,,YOU are essentially cutting off YOUR head to spite your FEET as relates to 'inalienable rights' everytime you make a case against An Acceptance of A Creator being real.

And where did YOU learn that there was NO scientific reason to believe in A Creator?

TV,,or school?

From a Pastor,,or a Professer?

A 'politician'?

Those types put it in the Declaration to begin with,,didn't they?

Can you fathom why,,or are you trying to hide the reason why?

psssst,,it was so that YOU would have the inalienable rights of life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness,,even IF state wished to 'alienate' them from you.



~....so don't think by putting a religious man in the White House that God is gonna take the wheel and steer us out of it.......it's just not going to happen.~

And you really believe a non religious,,or more accurately,,a non 'believing' person HAS to be a better choice when they do NOT believe in the SOURCE of 'inalienable rights'?

Your educational system indoctrination is showing in your biased attitude,dawg.



~It's gonna take someone with leadership, a backbone, who isn't afraid to tell Americans the truth,~

And that cuts you out of the running right there since you will NOT tell the truth abouthow IF,,there is NO creator there can be no expectation of 'inalienable rights' of any sort.



~and someone who will stand up to the special interests and lobbyists and tell them enough is enough,~

Oh,,but NOT 'Educational Industry lobbyists and Institutions of Higher Education' who are actively eroding a belief that we all should expect ertain rights to be 'inalienable' becaise the source that 'endowed us all' with them is non existant??



~that Country comes before Profits, and preservation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights trumps any greed. ~

So,,,since the Constitutions Bill of rights flows directly from the Declarations INALIENABLE RIGHTS endowed by a Creator,,,then I guess you just provided a clear and sound reason for any one who does hold the ideas contained in the Constitutions Bill of Rights to oppose anyone who DISBELIEVES there is a CRreator who can endow inalienable rights to us all from gaining any positin which allows thm influence or control over said 'inalienable rights'.



All that which you typed,,just to prove my point at the very end.

Sheeesh,dawg.

Just FACE IT,,your 'reasoning is flawed' if you wish to insist there is NO creator while attempting to present yourself as someone who would defend the 'inalienable rights' we are supposed to and have been led to believe we have been,,'endowed with' by what YOU insist is a NONEXISTANT source of those rights.

And you can't blame THAT on TV.

After all,,it's scientificly sound and taught in officially and duely accredited schools by professional professors,,right?

Just like the idea we are all just'highly evolved apelike critters' who should accept basing our behaviour on the behaviour of 'lessoer evolved apelike critters'.



Right?



TDDA/TEWM


http://royharbin.tripod.com/staks


created on: 6/22/08

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